Hey folks.
There's been no shortage of FUD being spread around on the forum, certainly not all unwarranted. After reading about the leadership reshuffling I had been uncertain I'd ever get the call, but I eventually did! I was finally able to get my Raven on to the range and I have some updates for the curious and the doubtful.
I was planning to break in the gun with about 200 rounds of SBR. I was able to get 70 of those through it, though it only cycled properly 90% of 10% of the time. There was a whole lot of feed failure happening, almost always this flavor:
I figured the gun just needed to be broken in and the failures would resolve themselves. I was eventually able to put an entire mag through it, and figured it was ready to be consistent, but on the next it was right back to repeated failures. Eventually they got worse, with double feeds and stovepipes showing up. I was about to give up for the day when I inserted my final mag and noticed it felt... wrong.
For those keeping track at home, that is indeed a piece of the magazine sitting in the chamber. I immediately set to wrestling the magazine out of the gun, no easy feat considering the bolt weight and the bits of metal jamming it into the back of the cartridge. I did get the magazine out, and inspected the damage:
Hmm. Yeah, don't think that is quite right. After this I decided that was quite enough dirty harry for one day and packed the thing up.
Back at home I was able to confirm that the mag had probably hairline cracked earlier and finally decided to give out when I slid it into place. I cleaned up the firing surface and moving parts, and other than the shooting grime there was no lasting damage to the gun itself. Small mercies, I guess.
I wasn't really sure what to expect with the gun when it showed up, and I guess after this experience it's clear there are some QC issues that need sorting. It's a shame, considering how well the pistol works when it works. Even as a lefty the thing is laser accurate, the sight was dialed in nicely right from the factory. The trigger pull is nice and light, and I've shot 1911s that kick worse than this does.
Rob and the factory have been contacted, but no response yet. Hopefully this is a fluke and I'll be able to get ahold of another mag that works.aAvwTov
https://imgur.com/aA Obligatory bonus photo attached.
Wow that sucks. Have you tried using an original magazine?
@pantera-mike I've only used mags that came with the gun, I wasn't aware there were any others out there that fit...
I have since been able to reach the folks in SC and they have arranged to send me a replacement.
But considering the factory mag quality leaves something to be desired, are you aware of any other high quality alternatives?
@pantera-mike I've only used mags that came with the gun, I wasn't aware there were any others out there that fit...
I have since been able to reach the folks in SC and they have arranged to send me a replacement.
But considering the factory mag quality leaves something to be desired, are you aware of any other high quality alternatives?
Well, remember, Auto Mags were made for years, in the 1970s and 1980s. Those factory magazines were generally excellent (although the early ones were known to break along the weld seam until they learned how to prevent that). Triple K also makes magazines for the Auto Mag, of only so-so quality.
I assume magazines made for the original guns would work in the new ones? I don’t know, though. Just look on EBay—they are listed all the time there.
Here is one:
@pantera-mike The magazines are a little different. My new mags won't even go in my Pasadena, and the old mags are very loose in the new gun. I have several of the triple K mags and all fit the Pasadena but don't all work well at first. Most of them take some tinkering with to make them run right, and even then they may not lock the bolt open.I can get some of the old mags to work with the new gun , but most drop out when you touch off a round, just too loose in the magwell. I tried to get through to anyone in SC for several months to get a couple of spare magazines, but no dice. I am amazed that anyone is getting through to them now, maybe that's good news. Fingers crossed,
@pantera-mike The magazines are a little different. My new mags won't even go in my Pasadena, and the old mags are very loose in the new gun. I have several of the triple K mags and all fit the Pasadena but don't all work well at first. Most of them take some tinkering with to make them run right, and even then they may not lock the bolt open.I can get some of the old mags to work with the new gun , but most drop out when you touch off a round, just too loose in the magwell. I tried to get through to anyone in SC for several months to get a couple of spare magazines, but no dice. I am amazed that anyone is getting through to them now, maybe that's good news. Fingers crossed,
Thanks for the info. I’ve got one new magazine for my old guns and it won’t hold the bolt open although it does go into the guns just fine. I haven’t had a chance to try shooting it though.
I recall hearing from AM that their new magazines were supposedly backwards-compatible with the old guns so I will be disappointed if that’s not true. Fortunately many years ago when Tim Bell was still working at AM, he built me several new magazines using original mag bodies and new Wolff springs, and they work great in my old guns.
I haven't looked into the price of an original Pasadena AM magazine, but I was assuming by the price of those guns that the mags too would also be prohibitively rare and expensive. Indeed it sounds like the fitment on the old mags is not quite right with the different tolerances on the modern guns, so probably not a good idea to go shopping for one of those to only use it in a raven.
I've had some trouble with the factory mags holding the bolt open on my gun as well. Haven't heard of triple K, but considering my luck with the factory mags so far maybe it's worth going that direction?
@npn7001 congratulations on getting your Raven, it looks good. If you go the Triple K route, there are a couple of things that you can check to see if it will work. It's going to be loose in the gun, try putting a piece of packing tape on the right side of the magazine to shim it. One or two layers will probably be enough to get it to latch in place and still work with the magazine release. This will also move the pin over enough to work with the bolt hold open. If you still have problems with the bolt not locking back, try loosening the left side grip, when I got mine the grip had been over tightened enough to keep the parts from moving, and the grip was actually cracked. It yours is too tight, you can either just back off the screws a turn, or deepen the inletting a bit on the underside of the grip. I wound up getting a machine shop to solder metal strips on the right side of my mags using the tape thickness for a guide, that worked out well. The guns are definitely interesting, and even with the newer machining process, a little hand fitting still goes a long way. Best of luck with it, I went with the Triple K route because I couldn't get through to anyone to order extra magazines, and I figured that at the price, I could get 3 for the price of one, and if only 2of them worked I would be ahead.
Triple K mags arrived today. The fit in the pistol was not as loose as I was expecting, it wasn't too far off the factory mags. Trouble is neither of them will lock the bolt back. I can shim them up with tape right up until they don't work with the mag release at all, and they still won't. The hex bolts holding my grips on were already torqued down just right too, so no luck there. I can loosen them up to the point where they are barely attached and the behavior is unchanged. Both mags arrived damaged, one with the pin hole drilled too far forward so it doesn't fit in the guide, making the cartridge follower completely stiff in place. Looks like the manufacturer just cross-threaded the fuck out of it instead of tossing it in the reject pile. The other one has a nice big gall in the bottom of it near the base, with an edge on it sharp enough that I sliced my thumb open before I even saw it. There's no shipping address or email on their returns policy page, I guess I'll just email their sales address and hope they get back to me. If they don't my only option will be to call the bank and force a chargeback.
Glad yours worked out, but it seems I am not quite so lucky. Maybe the factory will send me another mag? Someday?
@npn7001 I guess the quality control is a little sketchy on their mags too, I guess I'm just used to having to fix and fit all my stuff. I guess there isn't enough of a market for any other magazine company to be interested in making any other aftermarket items. Best of luck with it, these are good guns from what I've seen.
I have had my AutoMag for about two years now. I seldom shoot it and have only shot 1 1/2 box of SBR ammo through it. I like shooting it but can only manage to get 2-3 rounds to cycle with only 5 rounds in the mag. Easily cleared (stovepipe) I continue to shoot the rest of the rounds. I can only comfortably shoot 15-20 rounds at a time due to wrist fatigue/pain. It's still worth the pain and always gets a lot of interest from other shooters.
P.S. I also have a Raven (the first one produced) but will probably not shoot that one.
My son got the most recent gun the company produced before production went on hiatus a few months ago. We finally fired it for the first time yesterday. We put 40 rounds through it with 100% reliability. Initially we were only loading single rounds into the magazines, but then we increased it. With considerable effort we were able to get seven rounds in both magazines, and the gun functioned flawlessly. It was also extremely accurate.
@ed-sauer Some guns need to be broken in. Mine took over 200 rounds before it stopped having issues. Loading also seems to be an issues. Lighter loads will cause stovepipes due to not fully cycling the bolt to the back and grabbing the next round. I load my own loads and had issues until I increased the weight of the powder, while staying under maximum.
I have had no 'break in' problems with either my TDE 180 or my Coonan Classic when they were virgins. The important points are that the guns were cleaned and lubed before firing medium loads. That, and NO wimp wristing!
Finally received my Automag on January the 2nd and was very pleased with the gun and the finish I chose. Their have been several problems that have plagued me with my new gun. First the bolt is a beast to pull back and requires a good grip just to pull it back. I have a pair of shooting gloves ordered and hope this will help with such. The second issue that has arised is that my gun's bolt would not lock back on the magazine without pressing up on the bolt latch. Finally today I was able to fire my Automag only 8 times. The first three rounds were 21.5 grains loads which fired good, but my bolt would not lock back on the last round. After examining my gun for a good 40 minutes and reading the instructions again I forgot that my gun came with an extra magazine. I carefully examined both magazines and saw several differences. The first difference that was noticed was one magazine had no cut to reduce the stress on the weld the other one did. The second biggest thing I noticed was the the tab that pushes on the bolt latch where two totally different measurements.
