Great pics Mike 🙂 Did you make those with the new RCBS set?
I'm familiar with that effect from decades of loading 9mm - we called it 'wasp waist' and it was an issue trying to explain to new shooters/reloaders how it happens (I always struggled with trying to efficiently explain how the sides of the carbide has to be parallel otherwise it won't size anything other than the lowest sides of the case) and that "No, nothing's wrong with it and it won't harm your pistol..."
Great pics Mike 🙂 Did you make those with the new RCBS set?
I'm familiar with that effect from decades of loading 9mm - we called it 'wasp waist' and it was an issue trying to explain to new shooters/reloaders how it happens (I always struggled with trying to efficiently explain how the sides of the carbide has to be parallel otherwise it won't size anything other than the lowest sides of the case) and that "No, nothing's wrong with it and it won't harm your pistol..."
Andy, those rounds were loaded with a RCBS carbide set from maybe 5-10 years ago? I have to assume the new ones will be exactly the same.
Conventional steel dies for bottleneck rifle and tapered pistol cartridges size along their full length—that is, the inside of the die from top to bottom conforms exactly to the desired dimensions of a new case. However, carbide dies only size at the very bottom, and the case is squeezed to that dimension along its full length as it is raised past the carbide ring. In this way, a tapered case is converted to a straight-walled case (the full length is sized to match the smaller diameter at the top) with a bulge at the bottom where the case doesn’t actually enter the die.
This sacrifices dimensional perfection in exchange for expediency, as one can increase output by a factor greater than 10x by doing away with the fuss and bother of lubing cases before sizing, and then removing the lube afterwards.
I have often wondered why nobody makes a die with a full-length carbide insert machined to accurately reproduce the standard steel die dimensions? It would probably raise the cost of the die substantially as the required carbide insert would have to use 5x-10x more carbide material. Or, maybe it’s simply not possible? As it is, what we have works terrific, and there is probably a very small market for a $1000-1500 full length carbide sizer die!
Great pics Mike 🙂 Did you make those with the new RCBS set?
I'm familiar with that effect from decades of loading 9mm - we called it 'wasp waist' and it was an issue trying to explain to new shooters/reloaders how it happens (I always struggled with trying to efficiently explain how the sides of the carbide has to be parallel otherwise it won't size anything other than the lowest sides of the case) and that "No, nothing's wrong with it and it won't harm your pistol..."
Andy, those rounds were loaded with a RCBS carbide set from maybe 5-10 years ago? I have to assume the new ones will be exactly the same.
Sweet - I'm looking forward to them.
Here are my thoughts on the carbide dies and tapered cases.
I have shot quite a bit of precision rifle both Benchrest and Long Range (600 yard). You quickly find out that a case that just exactly fits the rifle chamber is going to give you the best results. Cartridges that are fitted perfectly to a rifle’s chamber, and are as close to perfectly concentric as you can achieve will give you the best uniformity and uniformity will give you the best performance and accuracy.
As far as lubing taking a lot of time depends on your loading process. I have progressive presses but I never have loaded AMP cartridges on them. I load 44 AMP’s just like I load a precision rifle, on an old turret press. Lubing is just another step in the process. I typically load about enough cartridges for one or two trips to the range at a time and that is it. It is not like a 9mm or a 45 acp where you load a bucket full at a time.
I feel if you are going to do it, it pays to do it right.
The 9mm carbide dies is what got me thinking a lot about this. 9mm has always been the “cheap blasting” round and we went to 45’s or 38 specials for accuracy. In the last 20 years they have started producing very good “target quality” 9mm pistols and I got interested in them. That got me to start looking at my and my shooting friend’s hand loads and wondering if we could be doing a lot better job. They all have that “coke bottle” shape. So far it seems like Redding has the best 9mm dies which I ordered and if you want to get really into it, you can get one of these which some of the guys over at SIG own. Too much money for me.
Again, this is JMO.
I made my first rounds of 44 Auto Mag cartridges a little over a week ago with the new Starline brass & Hornady XTPs. I'm using a set of original (4 piece set) RCBS dies in a progressive press. I have the sizer in stage 1 (decapper die not installed). I shot them and all went well (Auto Mag is very cool). When I try to resize the fired cases, they jam up in the resizer 3/4th the way down (yes, these cases were cleaned and lubed). I am an experienced reloader for pistol and rifle cartridges (on progressive equipment) and It feels like I am trying to resize a rifle case with no lube. Fortunately the old style (no decapper) resizing die is open at the top so I can tap the the case out of the die with the shaft of a large Allen wrench. The cases are resized well enough to reload but what a pain in the butt. I'm used to resizing cases as far down as a full stroke of the press will take me. Anyone know why this situation is different?
What are you lubing the cases with?
I made my first rounds of 44 Auto Mag cartridges a little over a week ago with the new Starline brass & Hornady XTPs. I'm using a set of original (4 piece set) RCBS dies in a progressive press. I have the sizer in stage 1 (decapper die not installed). I shot them and all went well (Auto Mag is very cool). When I try to resize the fired cases, they jam up in the resizer 3/4th the way down (yes, these cases were cleaned and lubed). I am an experienced reloader for pistol and rifle cartridges (on progressive equipment) and It feels like I am trying to resize a rifle case with no lube. Fortunately the old style (no decapper) resizing die is open at the top so I can tap the the case out of the die with the shaft of a large Allen wrench. The cases are resized well enough to reload but what a pain in the butt. I'm used to resizing cases as far down as a full stroke of the press will take me. Anyone know why this situation is different?
This is the exact same thing that was happening to me - what you describe with the resizing die.
I am using Hornady One Shot lube. Maybe that is not the best case lube to use?
What are you lubing the cases with?
Midway - Minute Lube
I was told Imperial Sizing Wax is the way to go. I use it when forming 357 AMP cases from 44 AMP and it works a treat!
In my experience, Hornady One Shot works fine for easy to size cases but I would not use it for AMP's.
I'm not familiar with Minute Lube.
Imperial Sizing Die Wax is by far the best but a PITA to use and clean up. I have used a lot of it on hard to size cases though.
I have mostly used Lee Resizing Lube for AMP's that comes in a tooth paste tube and is water soluble. Easy to use and clean up. I have had cases that feel like they are starting to stick so I pull them out and add a little more lube and then they will go in fully. It seems like once you get the dies well lubed that things start to go easy.
I have had rifle cases that I could not size normally and I had to go to the Imperial Wax. Good luck.
Thanks for the lube tips. I went back and re-lubed my cases and powered through the press stroke. After a lot of groaning (by the press) the case was fully resized and I didn't have to hammer the case out of the die. After doing it for additional cases it did appear to get a little easier. It's all about the lube! :O
Imperial Sizing Wax is out of stock/no back order at Midway.
I forgot to mention that for conventional sizing I use RCBS case lube. Works great, and less difficult to clean up than Imperial sizing wax. I seem to remember it’s water soluble.
I size my 357 AMP, 308, 30 M1 etc then throw them in a mesh laundry bag and place them on the top rack of the dishwasher. I wash them with the dishes and all comes out clean.
In summertime I toss them on the back patio and let them dry in the sun for a day or so. In winter I put them on a cookie sheet and dry them in the oven on low heat.
I realize I’m beating this to death, so please forgive me.
For the first time in almost 40 years of reloading, last fall I got a case well and truly stuck in a die because of insufficient lube. Fortunately I had thought ahead and had an RCBS stuck case remover kit at the ready:
https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/accessories/stuck-case-remover/16-9340.html
It worked exceptionally well. I’ve had it tucked in the back of a drawer on my bench for 25 years and never used it before. Very glad I had it when I needed it!
The way it works is that you remove the die from the press and invert it in a vice. Use the supplied drill bit to drill out the primer pocket. Then use the tap to cut threads in the case. Then put the metal cup (which has a hole in the center) over the bottom of the case, resting against the die body, and thread the Allen bolt into the case. When the base of the bolt head reaches the metal cup, keep turning. The bolt will pull the stuck case upwards and out of the die. Brilliant!
😆 Same here - love that gadget. I forgot to lube a .44 case about a year ago, got it stuck - grrr. Waited a week to get the tool but it's awesome.
A few months later it was used again when I bought a set of .44 AMP dies from an old gent and he apologized for the stuck case:
The tool had the case removed in less than 5 minutes.
Oh - lube. I use Hornady "Unique" case lube, somewhat similar to Imperial Sizing Wax
